Directions: Post a comment (a paragraph or more) in response to the prompt. In your post, you are expected to respond to what others, as well as the book They Say I Say, have to say on the subject. Sign your post with your first name, last initial, and class period. Thank you.
Prompt: The authors of They Say I Say argue that "writing well means entering into conversation with others" (xvi). In other words, in order to write well on any given topic, you must respond to what others think, say, and write about your topic. Do you agree? Support your answers with evidence.
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23 comments:
Is responding to what others say critical to good writing? According to the authors of They Say I Say you must enter a conversation in order to write well. I agree with them in that many good writers and essays are in response to someone else. However, a conversation doesn't start itself. A response requires a prior statement, and therefore someone must start a conversation. So it is all well and good that someone wrote an excellent essay in response to an article or speech, but someone must have the skills to start a conversation in such a way that inspires a response. Otherwise how can discussions begin.
For instance, in the book They Say I Say, the authors bring up a speech about an unknown doctor's (Dr. X)work. This speech was a response and underlined their point, but he was responding to Dr. X's work. Dr. x started a conversation that was thought out and stated in such a way that it inspired a conversation.
Therefore good essays can be responses, but it is not necessary for a writer to respond to something or enter a conversation in order to write well. One must simply develop the skills to start, rather than always enter, a conversation.
posted by Joseph S. period 6 at 4:35 PM, Oct 6
In order to create a well written piece you must be responding to what someone else is saying. I both agree and disagree with this statement. My reason being, a written piece could be based off of facts other than opinion. In order to respond to what someone is saying one must have different facts, or be placing their opinion. For example there is a book that is titled "Oranges" by John McPhee. The question on most peoples mind is how can you write and entire book simply about oranges? The book is well written and as you can imagine the author didn’t have a lot of opinion to add or room to disagree with anyone. The book still managed to be good, which proves the statement wrong. I am not totally against the statement though. I definitely agree that responding to what others have said can make a piece much more meaningful then simply a few facts. Also it may bring up something for the reader to think a little more about. Therefor I both agree and disagree with the statement that responding to what others say is needed for good writing.
posted by Elizabeth G. period 3 at 7:48 pm,Oct 6
The authors of "They Say I Say" maintain that to write well one must enter a conversation with others. "They Say I Say" urges young and developing writers to ensure that when they are writing an essay, they are contributing to a relevant and meaningful topic, not just creating something out of the blue.
I agree with the authors of "TSIS" that good writing comes as a part of an ongoing conversation with others. Academic writing that does not address others' opinions is pointless and will most likely come across as boring if no one but the author cares about the subject. The most compelling points that I got from "TSIS" is that well-crafted academic writing is something other writers will want to respond to and many times will be written as a response itself.
Joe S. makes a point that a conversation must start somewhere, so he believes it is acceptable to write on something you feel strongly about to start, rather than join, a conversation. But if you are "starting" a conversation through writing intended to generate responses, doesn't that mean you have just entered a conversation? Whether or not you are involved in the beginning, middle, or end of a conversation, you have entered yourself into a conversation. While Joe holds to be true that you only need the skills to start a conversation rather than enter one, I argue that the skillset is the same for both.
Paul o Period 6
According the view of the book "They Say I Say" writing well means entering into a conversation with others. Simply put, writing is a way to express your views compared to other's opinions. I agree that expressing other people’s views is an effective way of writing, but not for all genres of writing. I believe that this style of writing should be saved for a selected type academic essays. For example, when I wrote my essay on “More“, I didn’t include the views of others because I wanted to make my own points clear.
However, if one wants to write an essay on his/her opinion on something, entering into a conversation using what others say is a building block for the writer's own ideas. If the writer doesn't identify what he/she is responding to then the audience may become confused and uninterested. I believe that this form of writing is mandatory if one wants to express his/her views on a subject.
I agree with Joe’s opinion that it is not necessary for a writer to respond to something or enter a conversation in order to write well. As I suggested earlier, the format of one’s writing depends on the subject one wishes to write about. It necessary for other writer's words to be woven into an essay in which a view or opinion is being presented, but not in an essay in which a story is being told. Identifying when to use this method of writing is essential in order to avoid confusion.
In the text "They Say I Say," the two authors Gerald Graff and Cathy Birkenstein advocate the ideology that when a writer writes well, he or she is entering the conversation of others. That is not to say that a piece of writing is always a direct response of another piece, but rather, in my opinion, an idea or opinion the writer has based off what other writers have said.
I agree with the authors of "They Say I Say" in that I have come to realize in my experience as a writer that most things I say come from elsewhere. After all, people have written about various topics for centuries. Thus, whenever we write about something, it has to be based off what someone else has said. Whenever we use facts or statistics, we obviously use other peoples' research. Also, our opinion is based on others' works too. This is because we formulate our opinions based off the opinions of others.
One thing I remember most from my science classes at my old school was that everything was based off other things. Standing on the shoulders of giants, as my teacher called it. For example, if a scientist were to create a new model of the atom, he or she would have to develop that model based on what others have already discovered. The same principle of stepping on the shoulders of giants appears in writing. After all, are we ever the first person to write on any given topic? In my opinion, the answer is no.
Finally, I agree with both Paul and Lindsay's opinions. In Paul's response, he argued that no matter what part of the conversation one puts himself in, he has still entered it. "Whether or not you are involved in the beginning, middle, or end of a conversation, you have entered yourself into a conversation." To extend upon what Paul said, no matter what point in the conversation one inserts himself, I believe he is still using others' opinions to form his own. Whether it be directly related to the conversation he is presenting, it doesn't matter.
In summation, I believe the authors of "TSIS" are correct in stating that writing well means entering the conversation. I believe this because the writer naturally formulates his or her opinions based on what others have already said. Any good writer stands on the shoulders of giants; they stand on the shoulders of those who have come before.
Connor M., Period 6
In They Say I Say they tell a story of a man who is trying to prove that Dr. X is doing a good job. The one flaw to his speech is that he never mentioned that he was vouching for Dr. X because others had criticized him. By not engaging in some sort of written dialogue with the criticizers his speech was not as purposeful. Though he provided good evidence as to why Dr. X was great, he did not add why he disagreed with others portrayals of Dr. X. This left his speech feeling one sided and sheltered. I agree with They Say I Say writing can not be on one sided. To create an affective piece of writing we must engage verbally somehow with those who don't agree with us.
Finally, I agree with Paul O. Academic writing that does not address others opinions is boring. If you are reading a piece of writing to learn something you obviously want to know both arguments.
Sorry, I forgot my period.
Elyse Jones, Period 3 at 5:25 pm October 8
According to the authors of the book, They Say I Say, academic writing is not complete without presenting both what other people argue about a topic in conjunction with what the author thinks. The authors of this book state that academic writing is not just conjured up out of the blue, but is based in reply to what people with differing views have said. In short, this kind of writing doesn't come out of nowhere, but has a base in an opinion varying from the author's.
I agree with the authors of They Say I Say that writing such as this requires some type of stimulation. Without it, a piece of writing comes across as having no purpose or showing only one side of an argument. The authors of They Say I Say even use their own technique in their book. For example, when the authors discuss templates, they write, "We are aware, of course, that some instructors may have reservations about templates." This quote is the authors summarizing what others say. The section then goes on to explain particular ideas about the opposing view. Then the authors defend their method of thinking about the need for templates in order to guide new writers along by stating, "Consequently, we believe, students need to see these moves represented in the explicit way that templates provide."
Even though this is just a small snippet of the conversation, its direction and motivation are evident. It helps prove the authors' point that academic writing needs some type of propelling force.
Another point about this book is that not only does presenting what others say give the argument a point, it also can add strength to what the writer wants to prove or say. Often times presenting what others say can be a perfect way to poke holes in a different view, thus strengthening the author's argument.
Joe states that a conversation doesn't start itself. I agree with that, but it doesn't mean that SOMEONE must start it. I believe that a conversation can be started by an event, problem, idea, or even a current way of thinking. I believe that even those looking to start a conversation have SOME basis for their thoughts, because just as conversations don't start themselves, ideas don't just pop up out of thin air.
Caroline H. Period 6
Dillon C. 3
The book "They Say I Say," states that in order to write well you must respond to what others think and say. I agree. It is very hard to write an essay or any story based on only one idea...your idea. You need to bring in outside sources to "bulk" up your writing. In order to write an affective essay you need a couple things, specific examples, outside sources, and a purpose. I agree with the writers of "They Say I Say" when they say you need outside sources in order to write a good essay or story.
Sorry Mr. B. I forgot my period.
Lindsay R. Period 6
I agree with this. I think when you write a well written piece of writing you most always have to use anecdotes to prove you opinion.
Quotes from others should always, I believe, be used when you are writing about an opinion or an essay. For example, when we read the well written essay's in class every i essay I read had quotes from a different person agree, disagree or commenting.
When you are writing, using what the authors of They Say, I Say, can be very helpful. I think that thinking about a writing as a conversation is a very good idea, because when you have a conversation you are not the only one who shares their opinion, so when writing to get a full view of the opinion you need multiple views.
Claire C. period 6
Responding to what others say in your writing always makes for a strong piece of work. In order to write well, many people respond to someones point of view, opinion, or argument. They either disagree or agree with whatever is being said in the piece of writing. Instead of making up things as you go, it's better to have something to talk about in your piece that someone else talked about as well. In They Say I Say, qouting what someone else says is a good way to start out your own topic when you are either agreeing or disagreeing with that person. In Chapter 2, the book says that summarizing others' arguments is essential to what you are writing so the reader knows what you are commentating on. Like Joe S. said, Dr. X made a speech and someone else responded to that speech. They brought up what they, the Dr. said, and what "I",the person that responded to the speech, said. The author needs to clarify what Dr. X said if he wants his audience to be sure about what he is talking about. In most everyone's writing, what they say comes from what someone else says. When we qoute or cite, we learn how to write better because we learn how to respond and not just make up things as we go.
We learn better when we know both sides of an argument or opinion. We can engage in conversation, such as the book says, if we summarize what someone else believes then tie it in to what we believe. That way, a good essay can be made out of a response of someone else's work.
Nikki J. 6th period
In chapters 1-3 in "They Say, I Say" the authors say that to make a good essay we need to use other people's comments. i don't agree with this at all. I don't see why we have to put what other people sat into our own essay. My biggest question is why? In the book the authors didn't really explain why we had to use other people's comments. They didn't put their own arguement into their own book in my mind. I think that if you like the essay that you've writtne then it is good. We always want to be the best but i like the idea of using my own voice and saying what i have to say. I don't want to waste my time saying what other people have said it will just beocme repetitive over time.
Nathan K. period 4
Erin M Period 4
Responding to what others think is important in any argument. You must be able to defend your point reasonably or no one will believe what you say or give you any credibility. The authors of They Say I Say bring this up multiple times in the first several chapters of their book. And while I agree with their statement that "Writing well means entering into conversation with others," I also believe that their is more to it than that.
Good writing is not just respondong to what other people say. If everyone only responded then there would be no topics to respond too. Ideas start from somewhere, and often there is very little to prompt them. Also, I agree with another persons post that response to others is only a sensible writing technique in certain situations. In most essays it would be something you would want to do to give your topic more value, however, in others forms of writing, such as novels, responding to others does not always make sense for the topic or style of writing. For example, if you were writing about Rainbow; a magical unicorn that lived in an alternate universe in a city made of marshmallows in the clouds, you probably wouldn't want to bring up how many people one earth dont believe unicorns exist. First off it isnt entirely relevant, and second, Rainbow probably doesnt care about what people think of him and whether or not he's real.
Joe S, you are right conversation must start somewhere and there are many different place that a conversation could start. Maybe talking about Sports or, in our case, a topic. Dr. X's work should have been explained more thoroughly. The more information there is on the topic, the better the conversation can be. I personally like having people criticize my writing, whether "they say" negative things or positive things, it helps all the same. It brings me back into my conversation that I started.
p.s. thats Katie P. Period 3
The book They Say I Say dictates that to write well you need to enter into a conversation with others. This means that you need to respond to what someone thinks or says about your topic to write a succesful essay. I agree with this teaching; writing becomes so much more passionate when the author writes about something that he belives in and is defending that belief. When the author likes what he is writing about, the reader can tell. The reader will enjoy reading the authors words more if he can hear the fury and the passion rolling from the authors words.
A conversation can't be started by one person so, ergo, an author needs to respond to someone else's thoughts. This will cause many mixed feelings and thoughts running through the author's head, which will result in passion. The reader can sense all this and will enjoy the writing so much more.
Emily T. period 6
Must we always engage in a conversation with others in our writing? Are the writers of 'They Say, I Say' correct? Yes, they are. Whenever you write something you are responding to someone else' actions, or something they have written. You express your feelings for a topic, whether they are good or bad, and you wish to get the readers on your side of the argument. So you provide another persons view on the topic, pull it apart, and try to persuade them to believe what you believe.
I would agree with the authors of They Say, I Say when they claim that you must have a counter argument or point of view, to create a good piece of writing. Sure, you could write a factual piece on a topic, but without "entering into conversation with others", your reader will probably beg the question: Who cares? The authors of TSIS use Dr. X as an example. After sitting through a tireless speech about Dr. X's work, the author was left questioning why this information was needed? Had anyone ever disagreed with this argument? It was not until the end of the speech that this speaker mentioned Dr. X's critics-- or the "they". By abiding by the simple rule of thumb that you must always be responding to what others say on your topic, you can hopefully avoid the trap of leaving your reader wondering why exactly you wrote on the topic you did. For when you say what "they" say first, you will indefinitely have a more interesting piece.
According to the authors of They Say, I Say, they believe and argue that "writing well means entering into conversation with others." They are saying that in order to be a good writer, one must think about what other people say, think, and write about. I think if is important to be mindful and think about what others say, think, and write about your topic to help you build more on your story, but I don't think that one should be constantly thinking about what others have done. Yes, you should use other peoples views and "conversations" to motivate you to write about your topic, but one shouldn't always be thinking and writing about what others have said in the past.
I agree with Caroline, when she says,"that writing requires some type of stimulation. Without it, a piece of writing comes across as having no purpose or showing only one side of an argument." I completely agree with her in that different points of view do make a good argument and contribute to the topic one is writing on.
I also believe that one shouldn't always think about what others have said. Yes, it requires other peoples' sayings to get you started on a topic, but one should write for themselves. One shouldn't write to argue or agree with a person, but to add more light on the topic. One should use other people's perspectives, but not base their whole writings solely around that.
I agree with the authors of They Say, I Say when they say (haha) that one must enter themselves into the conversation and use what others have said on tho topic you are writing about to drive you forward on the topic you are trying to write about. I don't think though, that one should only write to use what others have said. I believe that one should use what others have said to start the topic, but then the writing becomes about you. Don't write to please others and repeat what they have already said. Start something new.
Mikaela S. 4th
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